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"Lawsuit" guitars: a little info to get you started

By  Bob Glastetter | Published  01/24/2007 | Guitars
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"Lawsuit" guitars: a little info to get you started

??What’s the story on the famous ‘lawsuit” guitars? Well there is a bunch of wrong info out there and debated on who was actually sued. To the best information I have Ibanez was the only actual company sued by Gibson during the lawsuit era from the late 70’s early 80’s. Legalities though are NOT the point of this article, what matters is the quality of guitars built by the Japanese makers during that time frame and how good they are.

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? So here’s the lowdown. In Japan during the late 70’s and early 80’s there were several guitar makers that decided to copy/replicate the great old Gibsons and Fenders from the 50’s. They actually had vintage guitars, pretty much copied them very very closely and sold those guitars to high end guitar buyers in Japan. There were several makers and ALL of them made really good copies. Ibanez,Tokai,Greco,Burny,Fernandes were the biggest and most well known. Not only are their guitars very accurate in feel, quality wood and construction methods were used. Good quality parts, tuners and pickups were used. If you put a Gibson logo or Fender logo on them you could fool many people except the experts in guitar identification.? The goal was to reproduce the best American made guitars from the golden era, the late 50’s and make them affordable to the high end Japanese markets. They are some of the best guitars ever built from playability to attention to detail to tone, at a time when the Amercian guitar makers were making a poor quality product.

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?So what to look for? Well in almost every case the Japanese guitar makers have lower spec models and higher spec models in the line. Very similar to what Gibson and Fender do today in having a regular line and a Custom shop or Historic line. Most of the makers used numbers as the indicator, so a higher number means better wood and higher quality parts, mostly improved electronics and pickups. Example a Tokai LS-80 is like the standard Gibson les paul or classic model and their LS-100 and up range are closer to the Gibson Historic line in high specs. There are MANY different specs and higher quality guitars in all these lines and would be impossible to cover here. A good rule of thumb though is that the lower specs are very close to Gibsons/Fenders standard line or equal in some cases and the higher specs guitars get you closer to the best of these makers. When looking to buy one of these find out the specs the best you can and the neck shape, many of the MIJ guitars have really thin necks made for their market, but there are PLENTY of nice medium to thicker neck options out there.

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?Here’s a list of my favorites from this era and they all can be bought for a lot less dough than the American made counterparts.

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Tokai Love Rocks: Many folks like their Les Paul replicas the best, including me and they still make them new and can be found in the Uk,?Japan and on e-bay. High end Greco’s, and Burny’s are killer also. The lower spec models I would place just under a regular Gibson or Fender but WAY better than anything coming from Korea or China

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Fernandes and Tokai for the best Fender replicas: Again the lower spec models are good but the higher spec models just kill.

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Ibanez I believe make the best of the semi- hollow/hollow bodied guitars.

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There are more mfrs. out there that came later and deserve a strong look and more research. The Epiphone Japan made line [not Korean] and the Orville or Orville by Gibson line that were officially licensed by Gibson are killer guitars for the money and of high quality. Greco and Fender Japan for the Fender copies are excellent. One of the newest players in this game are Edwards brand. Made by ESP they are excellent guitars made new and can be bought from Japan for less that half of what a new Gibson or Fender U.S.A. made guitar costs, available on E-bay from authorized dealers who ship to the U.S. all the time. I have bought several guitars from Japan all with great results.


? Most but not all of the Gibson copies feature long neck tenons just like the Historic models and?the REAL DEAL '54-60's Les Pauls, there IS a tonal difference that many people like better, more sustain and resonance.

? The only drawback to the MIJ guitars is that they tend to use lower grade pots and wiring in the lower spec models and to get the guitar really happening they need to be upgraded but that's relatively cheap and easy.

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? In summary the best advice I can give is to start researching your specific needs in guitars and go from there. E-bay has these guitars for sale all the time and is an excellent source of information from the sellers themselves. Here’s a list of brands and a great place to start. These are the real "sleepers" in the guitar world and I have found? it a great affordable way to add guitars to my collection and for recording purposes that sound great without having a $2,000 price tage. Many of these guitars are well under the $800 mark and definately have the "real deal" sound! Below I have listed most of the better guitars, some are only available used and some still make them new! Enjoy!

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Tokai: used and NEW guitars/ Gibson and Fender replicas

Greco: used from the “lawsuit” era/ Gibson and Fender replicas

Burny: used Gibson replicas from the “lawsuit” era, they do a great SG

Ibanez: used from the “lawsuit” era for Gibson Semi hollow-hollow body replicas

Fernandes: NEW but no more replicas, used?however their Fender replicas just kill!!

Orville/or Orville by Gibson: used licensed by Gibson

Epiphone Japan: used and killer Gibson replicas [not the Korean stuff]

Edwards: NEW guitars and many believe the best of the new makers for Gibson and Fender replicas.
Fender Japan: Great fender strats and teles made just like the golden era guitars


I have included a pic below of my Japan made copy guitars

Happy Hunting

Guitar Guru

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Comments
  • Comment #1 (Posted by Brandno Drury)
    Rating
    Killer article, Bob! I've always been intrigued by the idea of getting killer guitars at great price especially when I get to feel like an outlaw doing it. I've been around too many non-impressive Fender and Gibson guitars to find any reason to dump 2,000 into a guitar. There are other options out there. This article really shed some light on the subject. When my lottery check comes in, I know what I want now!
     
  • Comment #2 (Posted by an unknown user)
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    very informative. more please.

    Pastor Ernie
     
  • Comment #3 (Posted by W.DeWitt)
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    Thank you for the information, but does anyone out there know about the solid wood Memphis guitars circa late 70's early 60's? Had they also been involved in a lawsuit?
     
  • Comment #4 (Posted by Will)
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    Great article! Do you know anything about an MIJ Taro LP style guitar?
     
  • Comment #5 (Posted by Barry E. Russ)
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    Bought an Epiphone Japan Les Paul Standars on Ebay. Got a great deal and a guy threw in a Fender "studio valve" amp and chords basically for free. He had bought both in Japan in the navy. Best Les Paul I have, and I have a standard and a classic Gibson. My great guitarist friend played it through his vintage vibroluxe reverb and was blown away by the feel and clarity of the pickups.I got the amp and guitar for 425.00..Now beat that!
     
  • Comment #6 (Posted by Barry E. Russ)
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    meant to give this article a five star rating. This guy know his stuff!
     
  • Comment #7 (Posted by jeff)
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    hey,
    here's some info...browsing in Hollywood for a badass Gibson LP Special or JR. prices through the roof. My girl wanted the LP Special faded at Guitar Center. Little did we know, we were in for a surprise..
    checked out a Memphis dual-cutaway, setneck, dual p90, two piece mahogany LP Jr. knockoff. This was a rockin' machine! here's the low down on this badass block of wood:

    1. dual p90's were hotter(more sustain/power) than the Gibson LP JR. custom shop, and the LP Special dual-cutaway faded Special.

    2. from the 1970's, it was in fine shape.

    3. true, nitro finish to protect the guitar. Not this cheap, cost saving 'faded' finish.

    4. stayed in tune very well.

    5. put skinny top, heavy bottom strings(.52 low E) for added sustain.

    well, for 500 bucks, it outplayed the Gibsons. Was finished better than the Gibby LP Special faded, and was cheaper! If you can deal without the Gibson name on your headstock, go for it! sometimes, luck prevails. However, try the instrument carefully, don't be afraid to haggle. Memphis, all I know was a Japanese Gibby knockoff, too bad it outplayed today's! ha.
     
  • Comment #8 (Posted by mike)
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    info extremely helpful , been searching for awhile . mine is gloss black , looks like gibson knock off says Memphis where it would normally say gibson , 22 frets, pearl inlay on neck , 2 volume , 2 tone , solid body electric 2 inches thick, with a small rectangular sticker on the back that says LP 100 . best playing electric i've ever owned . would like to find out who manufactured it if possible to buy another like it . could you help
     
  • Comment #9 (Posted by Mikhail)
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    I was routing willy-nilly through a buncha forums till I found this atricle. This artice systematizes all the questions and gives excellent answers, in a word brings things in order and inspires you to countinous your search.

    Thank you.
     
  • Comment #10 (Posted by bear)
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    i have a jedson tele copy the best copy ive seen & the metal plate on the back is stamped with steel adjustable neck made in japan & a serial number 0186643 seen a lot of these but not with a serial number & not with this shape head stock !! any body know anything ?
     
  • Comment #11 (Posted by Poul)
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    Great, great article. Have a Fernandes Revival '81 - and it plays like a Fr Custom Shop.
     
  • Comment #12 (Posted by pr)
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    ibanez 1970 es335 copy. good shape, bolt on.value?
     
  • Comment #13 (Posted by max v)
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    Great article Bob...man...I just gave my kid my 62 strat...because , I promised him when he was younger that if he got really good , I would give it to him...that was at ten...he's 16 now ...and well...a promise is a promise...he really good...so I was looking for an old law suit strat...because they were just as good as my 62 strat and would not ( cost me thousands )....So Bob, how long was the Ibanez law suit strats made for? I know they started in 69...when did they end production of this great guitar? I am interested in finding one...but I want to know the real years of production....
     
  • Comment #14 (Posted by Kelvin)
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    Hi I have a PAN guitar 70's - left to me by my mom - dove on it - can you tell me about it
     
  • Comment #15 (Posted by Alan Cugnoni)
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    I recently purchased a 1977 signed label Greco full bodied natural L5 fully acoustic I find it excellent with great tone & volume any onr out they have any futher info?

    Thanks

    Alan www.hotjazz.co.uk
     
  • Comment #16 (Posted by James Grimsley)
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    Don't forget about Aria Pro II (Made by Matsumoku) These are outstanding pre-lawsuit copies (w/open-book headstocks!) and are usually priced below the Grecos and Burny's.
     
  • Comment #17 (Posted by James Grimsley)
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    Don't forget about Aria Pro II (Made by Matsumoku) These are outstanding pre-lawsuit copies (w/open-book headstocks!) and are usually priced below the Grecos and Burny's.
     
  • Comment #18 (Posted by David Addison)
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    Answered all my questions. Great article,information is a powerful tool. Thanks
     
  • Comment #19 (Posted by topher)
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    Great article. Ive been looking to upgrade for a while and i think this is a worthwhile alternative. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!
     
  • Comment #20 (Posted by an unknown user)
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    Not really an accurate overview of the true "Lawsuit" guitars. Those are technically only the mid/late 70s Ibanez
     
  • Comment #21 (Posted by d)
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    you suck
     
  • Comment #22 (Posted by magnificus)
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    Navigator, Hisonus, ProSession, Photogenic are the other replicas that deserves mention. If you can find the very rare Hisonus bass guitar grab it, it's outstanding only bettered by Navigator Espionage Bass (the best Bass guitar bar none IMHO). I make this conclusive statement because out here i have access to hundreds of MIJ guitars and have been testing them one by one. Great article! and i agree totally with it. What sucks are prejudiced snobby folks. Ever wonder why Honda and Toyota dominate the global car markets today? Go play a lemon, go drive a lemon "d", you suck big time.
     
  • Comment #23 (Posted by kathy)
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    I have a black Garnet tele brand new never been used still in wrapper, strings loosened. This is a lawsuit guitar as well. I have been offered $800 for it from the Garnet site. Do you have any thoughts on this?
     
  • Comment #24 (Posted by john)
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    I always thought that the Ibanez lawsuit models were the solid body les paul copies. I purchased an I banez custom in 1977 and have to say that it still has the same thick sound as a good Les Paul. It has the curly top as opposed to the standard Les Paul top(which i imagine they were forced to change by 1977. Thanks for the info!
     
  • Comment #25 (Posted by tony)
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    hi i own a tokai springy sound oldies but goldies colour natural guitar its all original and in excelent condition can anyone tell me how old it is and what its worth many many thaks
     
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