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How To Deal With A “Picky” Mid Scooped Guitarist

By  Brandon Drury | Published  09/4/2007 | Electric Guitar Recording
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Dealing With Guitar Players Who Don't Listen

 It's a situation we've all been in. The guitar player insists on setting his low end on 10 and mids on 0. This guitar player refuses to alter his tone at all because he has the “perfect” tone. Of course, the guitar player loves to sit at home and palm mute. What metal player doesn't like shaking the house with palm mutes. Unfortunately, this is may not sound good in a full band setting. This is why perfecting tone must be done in the full band setting. It also explains why you should resist the temptation to solo tracks too often while mixing.

Disclaimer: There is “something” to a person having a unique tone that has never been on a successful album before. Innovators are necessary to keep this whole music thing intereting. There is no objective rule that says a guitar can't have low end. However, there is a rule that says if the kick drum, bass guitar, and electric guitar are all fighting for 80-120Hz than you have a mud problem. I can't think of a single person, no matter how innovative their tone, who wants to have a mud problem.

If a person is really “picky” about the tone of the record (not just the guitars) he would have arranged the music around his robo low end tone. So, when palm mutes kick in with drastically overdone low end in the guitars, the bass guitar could go high, and the kick drum could play much more sparse. If a band hasn't arranged the music in such a fashion, you know the guitar player has no idea what is really going on. In this case, he is not an innovator, he's just conditioned himself to like something that sounds great in the bedroom but sounds like vomit in the full band situation and refuses to compromise.

The best solution to dealing with a guy who insists that his guitar should be muddying up the entire track, screwing up the bass guitar / kick drum, etc is...well there are a few..

First, let's not call these guitar players "picky". Call them stubborn. There is a huge difference. Picky people actually want the recording to sound better and are willing to work out the details. Stubborn people are set in their ways and don't mind causing problems for the rest of the group.

First, you've got to convince him that you know what you are talking about. If he doesn't believe that you have at least some authority on the subject of recording, nothing you say is going to make a difference. So, if this guitar player doesn't respect your recording abilities, forget about convincing him to change anything. If you have some recording authority, maybe just asking him to back off the low end a little bit is a great start.

Here are a few methods to dealing with stubborn guitar players:

a) Be honest. Just by listening in the room when the band is playing you can tell if they have total mud. (At least you will with experience). You could flat out say "Ok boys, you have a mud problem. If the guitars are going to have all the bass in them there is no room for the bass and the kick drum. Another option is to mic everyone up, hit recording, and say “Oh my god! This is the muddiest mix I've ever heard in here!!!!”. Be over the top and sensational if necessary. Then say “Dudes, there is NO WAY I can put my name on that!!”. Make it a big deal! ....because it is.

b) Don't tell the truth - Go with what the guitar player wants and force that into what you need in the mix. Roll off the mud, use multiband compression to keep his low end under control and boost frequencies to help the guitar cut. Note: This IS NOT the way to get great guitar sounds, but it is a way to get through a session.

You can use mic placement to knock the low end down as well. Use a 57 or equivalent dynamic mic. Use the proximity effect to your advantage and back off a good 3"-6". This will knock the low end down considerably, but may bring in a lot of room sound. Do what you have to. Just make sure the electric guitars don't totally mud things up. Anyone who has recorded before (or who has really “listened” to a great sounding recording) knows that electric guitars just don't have nearly as much low end as what the 16-50 year old amateur guitar player probably imagines.

These people that refuse to set their low end on anything under 10 probably don't know how to listen . So, when they palm mute on the recording and the low end is DRASTICALLY reduced, he probably won't even notice. These types are much easier to work with than with picky people who actually can listen.

c) Record Mr. Midscoop (with everything I've said above) and also run him through an amp that has midrange definition. Set the amp to sound more like what you need. Get the amp with midrange power to sound great on it's own. Make sure that the amps sound good together on their two recorded tracks. (Make sure they are in phase). Tell the guitar player that this is trick you read about or something and that you probably won't even use it. You just want to try a mixing trick. By combining low end overload with a real tone you may be able to save your ass in a mixing pinch.

d) Get through this session and NEVER work with the band again. If a person refuses to compromise when you know you are right and you have a little authority, don't associate with this type of person. There are “real” humans that are fun to work with. Do the best you can with the tools you have to work with, and get out. This session sucks. In my experience, the kind of clients that are a pain in the ass when it comes to instruments are also a pain in the ass with paying on time and every other facet of working with other human beings.

 

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Comments
  • Comment #1 (Posted by robert)
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    I sometimes worry that I am that bedroom studioist, maybe, loving the mutes and those tone-searching noodles that drag on half a session. I have little to no experience in a band setting. I'm researching pickups and wondered what "more scooped mids" meant in a description of Seth Lovers SH-1s. After reading this description, I know that I never did like playing with those guys who dominate with their skills and personalities to the exclusion of a good total sound. This article helped me choose the pickups with the "less" scooped mids, because I thought they sounded, not quite brighter, but better articulated in the mids on the right of the eq. Thanks for a good description. I can't stand those guys, hope I never am one, but I doubt it'll ever matter if I am!
     
  • Comment #2 (Posted by andrew)
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    totally true. i'm in that situation now, but i convinced them that a mesa is going to sound better than a line6 amp any day. i don't know how people can be so ignorant. i think it has to do with self-righteousness in a way....
     
  • Comment #3 (Posted by Led)
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    I find this article extremely useful and relevant due to it touches not only the problem of recording a mid-scooped guitarist, but it can also be referred to the player who likes to cut his mids for TWENTY minutes in order to have a mighty head-cracking sound he had heard from Nile albums. But he doesn't understand the necessity and importance of clear mix while trainings with the band.
    I faced this problem in my band, where second guitarist with dramatically bad and muddy picking technique started to search for magical Mesa/Boogie amp without any mids, because he's convinced that he must sound as mighty as he sounds at home with Line6 Tonport emulations.
    The main shit is that he's a fucking stubburn chunk & greengo, who doesn't care any other aspect of the training base except mystical ultra-low-end guitar amp.
    Therefore, this is the other hand of mid-scooped pathological disease. Thanks.
     
  • Comment #4 (Posted by Jack)
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    Okay, this is a bit unfair. For this to be a good article, you would have to KNOW and LIKE all the dynamic sounds of any given type of music. When we are talking about Death metal for instance ( the reason I came to this site looking for good guitar recording techniques) the guitar NEEDS to be dense, perhaps not with tones of low end (as only a fool thinks that would sound good) But definitely with tone having that "scooped" mid range sound. Mids are good for body, I am well aware of this. Megadeth used almost all mid range frequencies for the guitars on the "Rust In peace" album and it sounds like CRAP. Perhaps there ARE key factors I am overlooking, but when we are talking about heavy guitar driven music with tons of gain and distortion, the LAST sound you want is midrange.
     
  • Comment #5 (Posted by Brandon Drury)
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    The problem here is you we haven't defined exactly what "mids" are. The metal community is always going to be looking for a more scooped guitar sound than say Twisted Sister's "I wanna rock", but that doesn't tell us anything.

    To say that all midrange is bad would be dead wrong. You can test it by cutting all frequencies in between 125Hz and 8K or so. You'll have nothing but subwoofer low end and fizz left. Many robo awesome sounding metal guitar recordings cut everything below 125Hz and above 8k anyway or at least could without making too much difference.

    The issue of midrange is also complicated by tone controls. Turning the mids down from 10 to 5 on my Rivera Knucklehead sounds "more metal" to my ears. However, the voicing of the midrange knob is dramatically different on my Marshall Superlead from 1971. That amp sounds very similar with the mids on 0 or 10. On a 5150, I personally like quite a bit of midrange because the midrange is voiced to sound mean. A 5150 with the mids on 10 is definitely NOT the Twisted Sister guitar sound. Turning the mids up to 10 on a Dual Rectifier definitely does NOT sound mean.

    So as you travel on your quest for mega guitar tone take in mind that there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1,600Hz, 3,200Hz, and 6,400Hz. Each octave is EXTREMELY important and totally indepedent. The kind of mids that most metal dudes are avoiding is in the 400-800Hz range, but with plenty of 1.6k to 3.2k and DEFINITELY plenty of 3.2k to 6.4k. I hope this helps.

    Brandon
     
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